Recording Distorted Guitars

[trezza]

Hey, I can record bass, drums, acoustic, electric guitar, shit,anything clean but when ever I try to record distorted guitar I ALWAYS get a shit sound. My mic placement is fine (most of the time i use 2 mics), my mic choice is fine (sm57) but for some reason I'm not getting that recording studio sound. I'm using a Peavey Classic 50 tube amp and a gibson les paul guitar. I run my 57 into my mixer and record...I know how to mic but its like it doesn't have a big sound that you hear coming out of a professional studio (and i've tried recording the guitar twice and panning each track). I know you shouldn't use a lot of distortion when you record dirty guitar, but I don't think you get the same effect if its too clean...i don't know...Should I use a large diaphragm mic along with the sm57? Mic pre amps? AH!! Its so frustrating, someone please help!!!

listen to some of my work and tell me what you think also...

http://www.acidplanet.com/artist.asp?songs=261114&T=3937

the files are wma files so that will account for the shitty internet quality; but u can get the main idea...

thanks
james

[MASSIVE Mastering]

Get rid of the Classic 50. If there's an amp out there that has an unusable dirty tone, you have it. Peavey is the world's most popular amp in Country music for a reason.

If nothing else, TURN DOWN THE GAIN - You want "crunchy" - not "fuzzy."

Don't turn the mids down, DO turn the saturation down (depending on what year you have - It might not have a saturation control).

Get your ear near the speaker and listen there. Don't pay attention to what it sounds like in the room - You're not mic'ing the room. Although it might not hurt...

[EDIT] Just took a listen - Is this an OLD C-50 with the squishy PAL's in it (square black magnet)? Maybe you should take one out (measure the impedance) and get a Celestion G-12-M70 or whatever the current (75?) model is. Not one of those "vintage" jobs - You need something that's going to break up a bit when it's supposed to, but stay clean when it needs to. [/EDIT]

[trezza]

ok......so if i switch the amp to clean and then use my big muff distortion pedal....think that would work?

--------------
Ok, i tried less distortion and got a more crunchy sound, but i still am not satisfied....the quality just isn't good...

[MASSIVE Mastering]

I don't mean to make it clean, just don't fuzz it out. Peavey's idea of distortion with Classics & the Deuce etc. was to saturate the hell out of everything until there was no tone left.

[Wireneck]

I just want to point out, if your tone is already fuzzy the Shure 57 is going to make it worse. I find distorted guitar to be the one application that I don't like the 57 in. It does something to the midrange that can only be described as HONKY lol. If you try everything else and you still can't get good results, try a different mic. I get good results with an Electrovoice-635a on my marshall amp. Don't get me wrong, the 57 will get the job done most of the time but its not always the best candidate IMHO.

[jake-O.W.A.]

You can't make the amp sound like a big studio amp is what you mean.

It's not the studio but what your'e recording.

List of improtance in getting the "studio" sound.

1. Musicianship (player)
2. Instruments and amps (source)
3. Gear, space (studio)

[Brymcc]

I think you'd be better off going direct into your DAW and using Amplitube or one of the other sims.
That peavy ain't gonna get what you want.

I think may favorite saying covers this one----- S@$T in = S@%T out

(a joke, but true)

[Kyle]

Well look who it is! Mr. Trezza, how do you do? Thought I would contribute to this little session and second the notion of using Amplitube and skipping your amp. I have amplitube myself, and it is exceptional. I used it on everything electric until my group's guitarist got himself one sexy amplifier (Fender HotRod deville 410). I still prefer to use amplitube on some applications. Check it out. Swing by my place this week and bring your axe, I'll give you a little demo.

[ramen]

listened to the mp3, sounds like you've got the amp turned down.
what is your master volume set at?
you are not going to get good tone until you crank up the volume.
of course you have to be lucky enough to have an environment where you can
really crank up with out an angry neighbor/parent/girlfriend/police officer, which ever your case may be.
good luck.

[sonicpaint]

I have found that in order to get that "fat" crunch guitar I have to do multiple layers. I always do at least three performances of the same guitar part.

Try this. Track a guitar riff long enough to get a good feel going. Make sure you have at least 3 to 4 performances of the same riff. If you have 3 performances of the same riff then pan one hard right, one hard left and one center. If you have 4 try panning one hard left, one 30% left, one hard right, one 30% right. Once at this stage, buss all guitars to one aux track EQ and compress to taste.

I know this method has worked wonders for me. If you don't like the bussing method then keep them separate and EQ and Compress the tracks separately. I say this because some are apposed to this for what ever reasons.

I'm a firm believer that what ever amp you use you can get a good sound using EQ. Now keep in mind we are not comparing tube amps to solid state, just getting a decent sound from what you have.

Good luck,
sonicpaint

[axemanchris]

I agree with Sonic . Layering is great. A couple of things to consider here, though. Along with multiple performances (NOT just copy/paste/time-shift), try this:

- two different guitars
- two different amps
- different tonal selections (EQ, amp settings, pickups, etc.)
- different mics

Also try...

Get a splitter (or an fx pedal/processor with two outputs ie. stereo, and use it on bypass), and run one line to the amp as usual. Run the other line clean into the recorder/mixer. You can use your clean signal later for either combining with or replacing the other tracks by way of:

- re-amping - running the line out from the recorder BACK into the amp, allowing you to try a multitude of tonal variations, mics, etc. later without having to re-perform it.
- using an amp-modeller/simulator. Check out the plug-ins from http://www.simulanalog.org/ . They're FREE and they're AWESOME. Go to "technology" and look for their Guitar Suite.

My latest song, I finally got a guitar tone that I'm happy with. What it amounted to was using two guitars on multiple takes. Each take was miked up and fed to the mixer via a direct line as described above. The direct line (clean of course) was run through this Guitar Suite plug-in with a JCM900 setting. With the range of tonalities there, I had a lot to choose from, and it resulted in a pretty fat sound.

Check out Unsaid at www.soundclick.com/christondreaumusic.htm to hear it. It's not an awesome guitar tone, but it's the best I've achieved so far.

Chris

[Joe Cole]

Hello there,

I registered on this forum just to give my 2 cents on your situation.

I want to dispell a belief. The Peavey Classic series are not bad sounding amps. I have heard many an amp double (or more) the price that sounded much much worse. Plug a Classic 30 into a Marshall 4-12 and the sound will really deep and chunky.

Two things to do: think about the tubes. Changing the stock tubes to something a bit more upscale will do wonders. The speaker, a Celestion Vintage 30 is a great choice for the Classic 30 1-12.

Live a Peavey Classic can get lost in the mix, but then again, so does most 6L6 amps when they are cranked.

For a rhythm sound, a little less gain and a slight cut at the mids could do you some good. Settings like b-7 m-4 t-4 will probably do fine, watch for the presence and treble, they are what get you the torm speaker thin sound.

For a lead/melody part, you are probably looking for a thick sustaining sound. Turn the gain fairly high, about 7, then push the front end with an overdrive pedal like a Tube Screamer. DO NOT USE A DISTROTION pedal. They just muck up your sound. Use an overdrive with the volume turned up full and the drive at about 4. use the tone control to kill the fizz.

This way you drive the amp, and not get the "distortion pedal in the clean channel" sound. That sound screams "I use a toaster for an amp!"

Now, in the tracking... double track as they say above. Pan hard left and right. Buss them to a one buss channel and compress a touch to file off those jagged edges that seem to much. Use a single track (or twin tracks both centered) for a part that really needs to stand out.

Use a tube pre-amp or simulator like Ruby Tube (free VST plug in) to perk up the track and get the yuck out. Then take a notch out of your rhythm guitar track, around 300 mzgt.

Good luck.

[sonusman]

I gotta second Joe Cole here about the Peavey Classic's. I mix a buttload of sound live, and record a fair amount, and I have seldom had problems with this amp sounding pretty damn good. I would rather mic it up than a Marshall JCM 900!!! Talk about a shit sounding amp.

Lot's of great things to try out already in this thread. I will add a bit here of an overall perspective that comes from being a guitar player for 24 years and having done a good share of playing, recording, engineering, and producing.

A good guitar tone is something to work towards. Be prepared to try a variety of pickups, strings, preamps, amps, speakers, and even GUITARS (to include a variety of different wiring scheme's) before you find that "magic".

When you hear a great guitar tone on a CD, you are seldom hearing "off the shelf" amps and guitars. More times than not, the producer probably brought in a "expert" with a variety of amps, and possibly several of his own guitars to make available to the artist.

If it was the artist's own rig, more times than not, they will admit that they had the amp modified a bit, and certainly tried many different types of pickups in the guitar.

On an on this goes. Truely, it is the only path to those "great" guitar tones. Finding that special combination of pickup, guitar, preamp, amp, and speakers, and how the artist approaches playing his songs is a pursuit that will never end. If you just bought a Les Paul and some amp and think you got that "magic" sound, well, pretty good chance you are wrong. Sorry to say.

Every good guitar player I know who cares about their guitar tone has spent a significant amount of time and money to get a rig that suits the sound they want. They all say that they spent a few years trying different stuff out before it all comes together. Often, they don't quite get what they want UNTIL they start getting stuff customized. That is just the way it is friend. Anybody that will tell you different either doesn't really have a great tone, or hasn't gone through the whole process yet.

Good luck, and stay on the high path of achieving a great tone. Stay away from the emulators!!!!

Ed

[trezza]

Ok...I've tried what you guys have said...and then experimented with my own ways...I'm getting a great classic rock sound, but I still can't find that new poppy guitar sound, but i'll keep working on it...thanks for all your help guys!

- - do you think adding other insturments like drums and bass make the guitar sound better?

heres an mp3 of one of my bands songs...led zepplin knock off but it was fun recording it. tell me what you think of the distorted guitar....the cymbals are clipping

[Joe Cole]

Sounds like your singer has a real liking for Axel Rose. This recording sounds live, everyone at once, maybe overdubbing vocals....

Your guitar tone, in this case, has less to do with recording then with your gear (guitar and amp). To get a great tone from your current setup. as readers have mentioned above, technique has a lot to do with tone. Eddie Van Halen can use an old cheap-o guitar and a transitor Crate amp sound passable, just by virtue of his technique.

Enjoy playing guitar, practice-practice-practice, and jam as often as possible.

As for recording, all the comments above are worth thinking about.

cheers