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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:02 pm    Post subject: back to basics Reply with quote

spent 4 hours yesterday afternoon dialing in the drum kit as my is now rehearsed and focused on recording-



The kit is a Pearl Recording set, a bit smaller, and called a 'fusion kit" by some. Cymbals are mainly Z's....after changing drum heads, cymbals, tuning, moving things around we started playing with mics- some times the tried and true is the best route

snare- A Granelli modded SM57 through a Bellari tube channel strip, 5:1 compression -20 dB threshold, EQ'd to roll off all low freq below 450 Hz

Kick- SM58 at the port, through another Bellari channel strip, -24 dB threshold 5.5:1, EQ's to roll off everything above 2K/// we tried a AKG D112, D1000, several different condensers inside/outside... SM58 captured the best sound

Each tom got a SM57 run through a Presonus D8 and this took quite a bit of time to get them balanced out- a combination of gain and position

Overhead is a single Jolie Modded Oktava MK-316, Hats are a MXL 603c Mogami, also through the D8- we decided the second overhead wasn't really adding anything

removed the Gobo, took down the ceiling acrylic shields to get more room

a room mic about 8' out and ~24"off the floor- AE3300 ran through a Prism pre-amp finished it off

it was worth the 4 hours... and the beer was great Very Happy

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dobro Offline
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So...seven mics?

Speaking of back to basics, have you tried miking a kit with fewer mics? Like one or two, for example? Recently, I've been recording what I do with fewer mics. For instance, instead of putting one mic on the dulcimer and one on my voice, I just jigged the one LDC the right height so that I could play and sing at the same time, through just the one mic. It worked pretty good. Also, until this week, I've had two mics on my guitar amp and one on my voice, recording all three at the same time (cuz I like to play and sing at the same time). But this week, I put just the SM58 on the guitar amp, which meant running just two mics at the same time.

As for miking a drum kit with fewer mics, although it would give you less control in the mix, it might give you a more natural sound in some ways. I mean, when you hear a drum kit being played, it's not like your ears are in seven different places, right? Your ears are in only two, very close places - either side of your head. So why not just a stereo pair up in front of the kit?

I'm just asking, not suggesting. But that's what I'd be trying. Easier to mix, too. Smile

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The two mic approach would be VERY back to basics, Dobs. One of my pet gripes vis a vis recorded drums is that they tend to be spread too far apart in the mix. Imagine, if you will, a pair of stereo speakers in someone's lounge approximately 3.5m apart and the cymbal hits coming from a way over that side and the floor tom way over the other side. Not natural at all. Sure you can still multi-mic the drums but for my money I'd keep them panned fairly close to centre.

Glad you enjoyed the beer, Stan.

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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's actually easier to mix 7 mics as I've got a lot less bleed (relative... there's still bleed) top say 3 mic's or stereo room mic... which I've tried. getting a good distinction between the kick and snare has always been a task- micing the snare top/bottom... bottom mic pics up too much beater- and I like to hear the hat

and the toms just don't put out a balanced level- bigger shells have more bottom which is what tends to dominate, especially if the drummer uses the toms a lot... and out drummer, while having a good sense of dynamics, plays the whole kit (and we've downsized it a bit from 5 toms to 3!

having 7 mics, once they're set, I group them together so any level change is uniform across the kit

and doing the compression and EQ on the way in for the kick and snare simplifies things (plus I like analog)

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I wish I could be traded like a penny in the arcade for a token to be played
on a cello strung with strings that are my dreams



Check out our music at http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/stainlessbrown[/url]
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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank
- as to panning- I've started going against the grain and placing the drums on the left (which limits the pan field)

seems to defy SOP, but as we're a 4 piece band I'm kinda liking the balance better (plus I've been really listening to Steely Dan's Aja... stellar, absolutely stellar)

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I wish I could be traded like a penny in the arcade for a token to be played
on a cello strung with strings that are my dreams



Check out our music at http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/stainlessbrown[/url]
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dobro Offline
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a lot of the songs on the album I'm doing now, I've panned guitar left and bass right, which goes against the norm of center-panned bass.

Go crazy. Cool

But recently I listened to something from the sixties that had the drums panned hard left or right on headphones and it was pretty weird. Of course, headphones generally are pretty weird when it comes to panning, but still...

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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

back in the 60's, a lot of music was recorded 4 track (Beatles as an example) so most everything was either left or right
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I wish I could be traded like a penny in the arcade for a token to be played
on a cello strung with strings that are my dreams



Check out our music at http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/stainlessbrown[/url]
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Lt. Bob Offline
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

they did all kinds of panning stuff in the 60's and a lot of it was done specifically with headphones in mind.
I used to sit and listen to Moody Blues with cans on and the early Steve Miller stuff had all kinds of cool panning in there.

I'm awfully close to getting into my studio again (collabs too) and I'm all over the place panning wise. My tendency is to pan things like a band was spread across in front of me so I often set the bass off to one side like a band almost always is.

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dobro Offline
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bass, sure - but drums? Maybe as an experiment. Or as a jazz trio or something.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol @ two mics.
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Lt. Bob Offline
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dobro wrote:
So...seven mics?

Speaking of back to basics, have you tried miking a kit with fewer mics? Like one or two, for example? Recently, I've been recording what I do with fewer mics. For instance, instead of putting one mic on the dulcimer and one on my voice, I just jigged the one LDC the right height so that I could play and sing at the same time, through just the one mic. It worked pretty good. Also, until this week, I've had two mics on my guitar amp and one on my voice, recording all three at the same time (cuz I like to play and sing at the same time). But this week, I put just the SM58 on the guitar amp, which meant running just two mics at the same time.

As for miking a drum kit with fewer mics, although it would give you less control in the mix, it might give you a more natural sound in some ways. I mean, when you hear a drum kit being played, it's not like your ears are in seven different places, right? Your ears are in only two, very close places - either side of your head. So why not just a stereo pair up in front of the kit?

I'm just asking, not suggesting. But that's what I'd be trying. Easier to mix, too. Smile


One of the bestest drum sounds I ever heard from a home studio was a friend of mine in B.R.

He used 3 .......... a kick mic (some AKG thing I believe) and 2 Crown boundary mics. He set the Crown PZMs in front of the drums by about 2 feet at and around 4 feet off the floor.
They captured everything .... cymbals ..... toms ...... snare ..... as boundary mics they grabbed it all in a nice stereo spread and then he had the kick mic to flesh out the kick.

A REALLY good drum sound and about as easy as it gets.

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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dobro wrote:
Bass, sure - but drums? Maybe as an experiment. Or as a jazz trio or something.


our plan gigging (if the stage allows) is to have the drummer on on side and keyboards on the other, each ~45 towards the crowd but otherwise in line of sight, with the bass and guitar amps back, bass closer to the drums

why?

we're used to having eye contact without having to look away from the audience

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I wish I could be traded like a penny in the arcade for a token to be played
on a cello strung with strings that are my dreams



Check out our music at http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/stainlessbrown[/url]
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would love to hear the results when you get some recording done.
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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

may have something tonight- we're planning on rehearsing the first group of tunes to a click

I may record just to have a point of reference

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I wish I could be traded like a penny in the arcade for a token to be played
on a cello strung with strings that are my dreams



Check out our music at http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/stainlessbrown[/url]
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dobro Offline
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

supreme commander Bob wrote:
dobro wrote:
So...seven mics?

Speaking of back to basics, have you tried miking a kit with fewer mics? Like one or two, for example? Recently, I've been recording what I do with fewer mics. For instance, instead of putting one mic on the dulcimer and one on my voice, I just jigged the one LDC the right height so that I could play and sing at the same time, through just the one mic. It worked pretty good. Also, until this week, I've had two mics on my guitar amp and one on my voice, recording all three at the same time (cuz I like to play and sing at the same time). But this week, I put just the SM58 on the guitar amp, which meant running just two mics at the same time.

As for miking a drum kit with fewer mics, although it would give you less control in the mix, it might give you a more natural sound in some ways. I mean, when you hear a drum kit being played, it's not like your ears are in seven different places, right? Your ears are in only two, very close places - either side of your head. So why not just a stereo pair up in front of the kit?

I'm just asking, not suggesting. But that's what I'd be trying. Easier to mix, too. Smile


One of the bestest drum sounds I ever heard from a home studio was a friend of mine in B.R.

He used 3 .......... a kick mic (some AKG thing I believe) and 2 Crown boundary mics. He set the Crown PZMs in front of the drums by about 2 feet at and around 4 feet off the floor.
They captured everything .... cymbals ..... toms ...... snare ..... as boundary mics they grabbed it all in a nice stereo spread and then he had the kick mic to flesh out the kick.

A REALLY good drum sound and about as easy as it gets.


And elegant as well.

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dobro Offline
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

G_L wrote:
Lol @ two mics.


LOL if you will, but I'm not writing it off yet. Cuz if you're not scared of phase, there's always distance with two mics, yes?

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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm posting a scratch mix from last night-

go to LR -> Rip Van Winkle

the drum work is simple- AND THIS IS A SCRATCH

Ozone 4 on the master (4 bad widening) and a slight bit of plate on the master-

otherwise raw tracks

drum sound? have at it- mixing/panning- no point- these are all scratch tracks (we like the "live " approach)

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Stainless ....

I wish I could be traded like a penny in the arcade for a token to be played
on a cello strung with strings that are my dreams



Check out our music at http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/stainlessbrown[/url]
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the basic on how to play is first you have a combo lata. do you know what a "combo lata" is? here in the Philippines some kids musician could not afford to buy a drums so they arrange a can and drums...
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