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 kick mic picking up snare....
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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:52 pm    Post subject: kick mic picking up snare.... Reply with quote

I've switched to a Pearl picallo snare, really like the sound, however It's coming thru loud and clear on my kick mic..... any suggestions?
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M.Brane Offline
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turn down the snare mic? Mr. Green
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Ausrock Offline
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Change to mesh heads Mr. Green ..............OK, that wasn't that helpful was it?

Just a suggestion which I haven't tried yet.........put some packing blankets over the top of the kick and if possible let them hang down without getiing in the way of the pedal, then aim the kick mic more towards the floor tom. This may reduce the amount of bleed but with a piccolo's dynamics you may be fighting a losing battle.

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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've tried re-directing the mic, changing mics, adjusting levels till I might as well be tracking the kick and snare with a single mic (not my preference)

Aquarian heads on the kick, Evans on the pic, I'd thought of the blanket approach- I can tame it somewhat by pulling the kick mic back /away from the front head.... but I sacrifice tone as it gets "boomier".....

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Emeric Offline
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gate it or manually edit out the snare hits.
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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gate.... hadn't thought of that... and I suppose I could edit...not that that's what I'd want to do everytime...
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dog Offline
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was my thoughts. I edit my kick and snare on every tune.
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dog Offline
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yer quick... Very Happy
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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well it's nice to know I'm not the only one...

when my drums sounded crappy I never noticed this happening Laughing

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M.Brane Offline
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stainless wrote:
I've tried re-directing the mic, changing mics, adjusting levels till I might as well be tracking the kick and snare with a single mic (not my preference)


If they are both panned center in the mix the bleed shouldn't be that much of a problem. I'm a big fan of embracing the bleed though. It's easier than fighting it sometimes. Maybe I'm just lazy.

Quote:
Aquarian heads on the kick, Evans on the pic, I'd thought of the blanket approach- I can tame it somewhat by pulling the kick mic back /away from the front head.... but I sacrifice tone as it gets "boomier".....


Exactly how are you micing the kick? I like to mic inside for the beater attack, and let the front of kit mic capture the shell/resonance/front head. That gives me more control of just how much beater I have on a per-song basis.

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joro Offline






PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say gate it too......

































but, that's only because Emeric said it...... Rolling Eyes Cool
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what's a gate anyways?? I dunno











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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I usually dup the kick and pan each one ~ 15 L/R to make a space for ther Vox which is dead on in the midle, and snare tyically off to the right ~10

I'm micing inside and presently ~3" off the strike "plate" perpendicular to the head. Front head is on, no foam/acoustic absorbant in the drum ... did try a couple of things and it really "cardboarded" the sond

Pearl exports- i'm getting hte best sound from a Karma micro-K comdenser

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jake-O.W.A. Offline





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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stainless wrote:
I usually dup the kick and pan each one ~ 15 L/R to make a space for ther Vox...
You are doing absolutely nothing but changing the volume of the kick due to the pan law. If I take two identical tracks and pan them hard left and hard right this does not leave a space between them at all. There is no middle speaker.

Panning your snare is absurd and unbalances the whole sound of the kit. Vox are at a different freaquency from the kick. Eq a "hole" in the kick frequencies if you are having a problem.

It's amazing how psychological sound is. You would not believe how many things you probably do that don't affect the sound one bit and how many things that affect it more than you notice because you want to hear something else.

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Last edited by jake-O.W.A. on Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe it's just my ear but it seems to make a difference .... probably mental

and I failed to mention the levels are slightly skewed and if I do apply any verb, one of the tracks is dry, so their not identical

but I do understand what you're saying Jake

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joro Offline






PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why two kick tracks?

that would screw me up....

I use one right up the middle...

match compression and level with the bass....pan the bass right to 12

snare is off to the right around 26 or 27...

hi hat right around 35

overheads left and right harrrrrrrrrrrd.....big high end eq boost

mounted toms walk left to right or right to left......

floor tom left around 30


that's where i start anyways....


Last edited by joro on Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stainless wrote:
maybe it's just my ear but it seems to make a difference .... probably mental

and I failed to mention the levels are slightly skewed and if I do apply any verb, one of the tracks is dry, so their not identical

but I do understand what you're saying Jake
That seems very weird to me. How are you liking those drum sounds?
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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so much better than the "hybrid" digitals.... that was sort of a failed effort in trying to deal with a crappy room... solution, remove a wall and invest in some rigid FG for traps, diffusers and clouds... plus I got ,y old kit back (ctually bought for my son)added some cymbals, new heads, DW5000 pedal, got a 16" Ludwig (mahogany shell) tom which I've ordered a cradle to turn into a kick, also for it, so I'm looking forward to got a tom mount.

...now understand I can't play drums to save my soul,, but I have two drummers who I like working with (and very different styles0 and both have given the thumbs up on the set-up- see the Studio construction thread on drum room (or whatever I called it)

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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I also got a Tama rockstra 15 x 6 chrome snare and an old Ludwig marching snare..... Tama is real dark.... marching snare is just plain cool Smile and I have the stock peral snare
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Stainless ....

I wish I could be traded like a penny in the arcade for a token to be played
on a cello strung with strings that are my dreams



Check out our music at http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/stainlessbrown[/url]
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M.Brane Offline
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stainless wrote:
I usually dup the kick and pan each one ~ 15 L/R to make a space for ther Vox which is dead on in the midle, and snare tyically off to the right ~10

I'm micing inside and presently ~3" off the strike "plate" perpendicular to the head. Front head is on, no foam/acoustic absorbant in the drum ... did try a couple of things and it really "cardboarded" the sond

Pearl exports- i'm getting hte best sound from a Karma micro-K comdenser


Yeah not having much luck getting a good kick sound with a single mic is what originally led me to using a LDC in front of the kit near the floor. Placement is critical, but once it's right it makes a big difference. Then you don't have to be so concerned about the internal mic as it's basically just for the attack/beater sound. I'll often just toss whatever dynamic I have laying around in there on the pillow, and just make sure it's not touching the head. Laughing Other times I'll use a supercardioid, and put the null even with the front head pointed at the beater.

In my experience micing (or hitting) the exact center of any drum is a recipe for a dead sound i.e. cardboard city.

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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm, i'll play with it some more, tho I actually like the sound I have... it's just the damn snare being "there" as well... I mean it's damn near as loud as the kick, gating really lefy me with a "cone of silence" KICK ... "cone of silence" KICK... I'm guessing you get the picture

I took the pillow out... it seemed to contribute to the cardboard sound, so I took the boom off a regular floor mic stand and placed in on a desk mic stand with some added weight on the counterweight so i can reall reach and still have a stable stand

I afraid if I put a mic on the beater side the sanre isue will get worse

for the record, neither drummer is a "beater"

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Stainless ....

I wish I could be traded like a penny in the arcade for a token to be played
on a cello strung with strings that are my dreams



Check out our music at http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/stainlessbrown[/url]
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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm, i'll play with it some more, tho I actually like the sound I have... it's just the damn snare being "there" as well... I mean it's damn near as loud as the kick, gating really lefy me with a "cone of silence" KICK ... "cone of silence" KICK... I'm guessing you get the picture

I took the pillow out... it seemed to contribute to the cardboard sound, so I took the boom off a regular floor mic stand and placed in on a desk mic stand with some added weight on the counterweight so i can reall reach and still have a stable stand

I afraid if I put a mic on the beater side the sanre isue will get worse

for the record, neither drummer is a "beater"

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Stainless ....

I wish I could be traded like a penny in the arcade for a token to be played
on a cello strung with strings that are my dreams



Check out our music at http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/stainlessbrown[/url]
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skod Offline
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, then try ditching the snare and hat mics altogether, and making sure that the kick mic and any overheads are all phased up nicely from the snare. Set them all up equidistant from the snare top and bottom heads, and with the overheads maybe reversed in polarity WRT the kick to allow the bottom head signal from the kick mic bleed (positive pressure pulse) to properly reinforce the top head signal (negative pressure to the overheads). Play with it until you like the sound, and then smile and go on about life. Don't laugh- this can work nicely, with all the brightness of the snare from the top mics and the power from the kick mic. It's worth a try, anyway.

With drums, eliminating bleed is downright impossible (*especially* with a Bruford-style whipcrack piccolo snare). So work with it until you like it, instead of fighting it. In a good room, you can use fewer mics. Bleed can be your friend!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems like it would be pretty damn easy to eq a piccolo snare out of a kick mic. Depends how much click you need in your kick sound. Gating it out would be a snap. Gating can sound dumb if the attack, hold and release aren't set right. You will probably have to set them different for different songs but do it. Learning how to work gates properly will open a new world of drum sound to you.
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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've vocals going on the next few nights, but this weekend I'm gonna play with skods 2 OH and a kick mic suggestion.

I'd like to get a sound dialed in so gates, EQ, etc, are options, but not necessities for recording.

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Check out our music at http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/stainlessbrown[/url]
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