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jerry33 Offline
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:40 am    Post subject: head voice or chest voice? Reply with quote

Hello everybody,
I would ask you one question. Recently I heard, that singers use head voice when they can´t reach high notes, is it true? what´s the use of head voice? is it necessary to smooth out the bridges between head voice and chest voice? do you think, that singers use it, or they rather prefer chest voice?
Thanx for replies
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Dafduc Offline
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on the style. High notes sung in head voice tend to sound clearer and less forced than when sung in chest voice. And a phrase that starts low and ends high really can be a challenge to place properly. My voice teacher is working with me on cleaning up my transitions now - singing arpeggiated triads with a range of a tenth is the main exercise he's had me working on.
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xxxxtree Offline
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyway if I may ask, how do you feel you are using the head voice correctly? Cos I have trying to work out my head voice to sing my high notes for some time. And I still can't get it down. I don't know where and what to feel correct. Haha. Smile
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Dafduc Offline
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Closed vowels: oo, oh, uh - help force head voice. Sing some high notes using those vowels, then try to keep your placement the same when you shift to other vowels.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I, by no means, am an expert. In fact, I intend to start taking vocal lessons soon. I'm starting to get a little older and I want to make sure I am doing things correctly to preserve my pipes as long as I can. I've been noticing a little wear and tear lately Rolling Eyes

I seem to default to a chest voice. That tends to give a really deep rich (manly Wink ) sound. However, the problem is that I am finding that I push my chest voice when I try to sing higher which is causing some straining of the vocal chords. I've been trying to watch that more lately.

Plus since I do some vocal demo work and am now singing in the church choir (got my first solo the Sunday after this coming Sunday) I would really like to get as proficient at that instrument (voice) as I can. I think lessons are just the ticket and learning how to make the most of the head voice. It seems to me a lot of todays pop singers use almost exclusively head voice and it drives me a little bananas. I enjoy when a singer can use both proficiently and in the proper circumstances. That is what I would like to aspire to.

So in answering some of the questions. Yes, I think it is necessary to have smooth transition between chest and head voice if you want a full arsenal. To my way of thinking (and the way I sing) I think the main use for me getting more proficient at head voice is to help extend my range and save my vocal chords so I can sing for several more decades and not sound like an old warbler.

Very Happy

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xxxxtree Offline
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is kinda out of topic, but when you are doing lives or rehearsals. You sing and probably you shout, like say... Theres a song where you are required to growl, grunt and shout, So its like I do this kind of songs, and during an hour into it, I will feel my voice start to become raspy, and when I try to sing for high notes or so... I turn singing from singing into screaming hardcore metal, doesn't hurt though... Haha... Any tips to lessen this occurence? Thanks Smile Haha..
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kgirl72 Offline
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with jagular 100%. I was going to say a lot of the same things, and I'm also contemplating vocal lessons for that very reason. They will help you to push your chest range further as well, if they know what they're doing, haha.
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Dafduc Offline
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to my voice prof, head vs. chest voice is a very different issue for men than women.

And Vive la differčnce!

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dobro Offline
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've used genital voice from time to time, but you have to be really careful to use it on the right material.
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soundchaser59 Offline
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I am far from being any kind of voice expert myself, but......

The best way I can think of to describe "head voice" to someone who is just learning how to sing is the way a voice "coach" described it to me:

Practice for a little while humming thru your nose, with your mouth closed. Then later keep humming thru your nose but open your mouth to start forming words. He did say this is characteristic of a lot of pop and especially country singers, but it can make ones voice sound smoother and less like "yelling". When I use my "chest voice" I tend to sound more like I'm yelling rather than singing, even though I tend to have near-perfect pitch. But ever since I started learning this "humming with words" tactic, I've been getting more pleasant reactions to my so-called "singing"....... Embarassed Shocked Laughing

But I dont want any real singers to worry......my singing will always be bad enough that people shall forever think of me as a guitar player! Rolling Eyes

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yidneth Offline
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you sing too much with the throat it will become sore
it's much much easier to reach higher with your diaphragm but also the sound is slightly different, comparing it with a wind instrument is like going from a flute to a trumpet... controlling the diaphragm I still go for the "head voice" when I want to make some clear hialine sounds, yet still you have to be aware and careful of not abusing
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fallen_azazel Offline
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have posted these next few vocal topics on the Dragonforce forum, but I feel that perhaps there might be something new to be learned from them here...Enjoy...

Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:28 pm Post subject: Further Tips on Proper singing technique...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Proper singing obviously involves proper diaphragmatic breathing, but using the diaphragm and attempting to sing as loud as you possibly can, does not necesarily mean that you are singing properly...

In singing, physically, the sound itself comes from the vocal cords. Weather you apply the proper diaphragmatic flow, strain your notes by reaching for them (falling out of your range), or use your throat to add edge or growl, determines how efficiently or inefficiently you use your vocal cords.

It is thought in classical technique, that none of the notes that leave the oral cavity and are produced by the vocal cords should be strained. This implies that if you feel any sort of tightness in your throat when you sing any note, your singing technique should be re-analyzed and refined...

The logic behind this is as follows...The throat is much like a hose through which air flows...Push too little air through it across the vocal cords and notes will sound weak...Push too much and you are either overpowering your cords or worse case straining your notes, which means you just tightened your throat muscles trying to get the note out...

Neither is good for proper technique...Therefore look at your throat and oral cavity which is used for note shapping as a fine tuned machine which work in unison for a pefect balance of power and projection...

Also, the biggest misnomer in singing, especially in classicaly trained singing, being it operatic or power metal is the straining of the notes in the midrange to blend into the upper register or what some call falsetto or head voice...

I suggest starting your blends in a much lower register...Do not push your mids or you will loose the balance of power and projection by tightening your cords and grinding/overstretching the vocal cords to overcompensate...What this does, is overpower your cords and weaken your control over your note forming ability and register blending...Basically it is a total loss of power...

A well connected lower register to mid register to high register should be continuous...If you're forcing to connect the registers, you're applying improper technique...Always question your throat muscles...Are they tense? Are you tightening your throat to get the note out? Relax and remember this tip...

Right at the mid point where your head voice meets your mid range, slightly above the chest tones, you will notice a slight disconnect or crack...That's the area you should focus your blends on...It will need years of work and refining...Your lows and your mid tones to head tones blends should be your primary concern...

The highs are much easier to work on later when the registers are connected properly...Try recording yourself on tape/computer with a good microphone and amp and without any reverb to help your voice...Try to shout (push your mids) and I will guarantee you will sound like crap...

Now try the same excercise, but from your chest tone (lower range) blend slightly into your head voice...Now listen to your recording and you will find that if you follow this simple principle throughout your singing career you will develop a properly balanced voice...

Remeber also to breathe diaphragmatically...Take a book and place it on your stomack and focus on lifting it with your breathing in the lower abdomen, but without breating into upper chest...Your focus is to imaginarily fill up your belly with air and lift that book...Just sit there and practice this till it becomes instinct...This technique will cause a diaphragmatic vacuum and greather displacement in your lung cavity...That's where the extra store for air goes, in that displacement. That is your power source and that is what you will use to project a steady stream of air across those two vibrating strings called the vocal cords...Don't push to hard or you will overpower...Don't overcompensate...Just let it flow nice and natural...Not too much and not too little, but just enough to get a nice tone and resonance...

Good singers, such as Steve Perry from Journey, Geoff Tate from Queensryce and myself use this very simple technique...It takes time to master, but practice to good musicianship and imitate the technique of good vocalists and given years of practice and proper technique your voice will develop...Just take your time and give your voice plenty of rest between sessions...If you feel you sound like crap in the beginning, don't worry, voice will develop through a gradual calousing process, which is the gradual conditioning of the vocal cords that is not detremental to your cords...Notice I did not say nodules or nodes...You definitelly don't want to get those and that happens from severe abuse/grinding of the vocal cords with excesive abuse from grungey singing styles/screaming, etc...Don't force your voice and give it time to rest...

Don't be afraid to experiment...Your voice is not as fragile as you think...Everyone makes singing mistakes when they start out...I've been singing for over 20 years and I still crack every now and then...LOL Heck even Pavarotti cracks every now and then...It's a natural thing to have your voice go out now and then...Practice makes perfect and by all means, seek the attention of a professional voice coach...It's definitelly worth the investment, rather than learning the wrong way...

Happy Singing...
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fallen_azazel Offline
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:35 am    Post subject: do singers have "off days" ? Reply with quote

RE:

Also, do singers have "off days" ?
where your voice just sounds a wee bit crappy compared to usual?

Your voice is not a mechanical instrument...It is a very sensitive biological synthesizer that gets affected by a lot of different criterias, such as temperature, diet, sleeping schedule, mood, etc.

If not cared for properly, it will more than likely fail at some point in time...When your voice is tired or stressed, you cannot hit the notes right and no matter how hard you try you cannot get it to resonate right...

When you don't feel up to it, weather it is a cold, sore throat, infection, etc...Just let it rest...No need to bang on a broken string on your guitar, therefore why abuse something so personal and delicate as your voice...

People in varoious genres of music today are more than likely to destroy their voice, because they are not using it properly and don't care for it properly...Voice has nothing to do with physical stamina...You vocal cords do not develop muscles so that they can get stronger...Your vocal chords develop calouses and if used improperly and abused continuously, nodules...Your physical fitness, my increase your lung capacity however and that means a more focused, tighter breath control through proper application of diaphragmatic breathing...This may indirectly result in a stronger voice...

I have heard all sort of stupid remarks from people in bands through the years...Things such as "Smoking puts an edge on your voice..." That is the last thing you should do to your voice...It's the number one killer of vocal range, not to mention the diminishment of the lung capacity...This is probably the #1 reason for shows such as: "Where are they now!"

Alcohol, Drugs, bad idea...Your throat needs to be moist in order to sing...If it's dried up after drinking alcohol, not only will you sound like crap and not resonate properly, but elongated exposure will just destroy your voice in the long run...

Any excercise that increases your VO, such as cycling, running, swimming, should help your voice sound stronger...This is due to the increased lung capacity...

Do singers take days off? Absolutely, unless they want to sound like crap with an overused and abused tired voice...Proper rest is probably one of the most important aspects when involved in singing, hands down!

REST THY VOICE and PRACTICE...PRACTICE...

Happy Singing

P.S. No, I'm not John Oliva...Am I famous...Why is that so important all of a sudden? Love to all...
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:41 am    Post subject: Can anyone be trained to sing power vocals? Reply with quote

Original Geek wrote:
Whether he's famous or just a layman, he's got good shit.


Hey Mr. singer guy, A youth pastor/musical director once told me he could train anyone to carry a tune. Do you think that's possible? Because I don't think I could learn to if my life depended on it.


I believe that singing is a lifetime endeavour...The earlier you start, the better of a singer you will develop to be! Past a certain age, it is really tough to develop the voice, especially the upper register. If you have never bothered developing your head voice to sound hollow or more or less to sound like a well connected register then you probably will not be able to sound like a power metal singer even if alot of training goes into it although there are exceptions...

Basically it works like this...Your chest tone is a natural tone, because you speak all day long and it's very well developed. It is fair to say that it is dominantly strong and overly developed perhaps for a singing voice. This means that you need control to fine tune it and adapt it to a singing voice...

What is control? Control is tough for a newbie to understand, because a newbie will do the following when they learn to sing...They will belt out the notes so that they can reach to the upper register...When they finally reach the strained midtones, they run out of power in the upper, headvoice tones which will sound strained and weak also...

So obviously from the lesson expressed above, how many of you strain your notes to get to upper register? Show of hands? "I DO...I DO..."

Well, if you read my previous posts, control is exactly the opposite of power! WOW! Scarry Huh?

Well, mister singer man, I thought that power singing is all about belting out the notes from the diaphragm? WRONG again!!!

Power metal singing is all about proper blending of the registers, which means tedious amounts of time practicing scales going up and down between registers without forcing/straining the voice or tightening of the throat muscles...

But what does this mean? It is very confusing when we associate power singing or operatic singing with control, which means a diminishment of power, to allow the vocal chords to resonate properly without overpowering them...So on this pass, you guessed right! It's a tone balance issue! Remeber my previous posts...Not too much and not too little breath control needs to be applied to the vocal chords while chanelling this exerted control for a tight focus on the note you are trying to sustain...Sounds easier than it actually is in real life...

Yes people can sing...But can they sing right? Can they blend their three registers properly is the question? There is a quick way to find out...

YAWN! Try it...If you get a squeal or a high note when you do it, you are probably more suited for power singing than you think...That is your falsetto...If your falsetto is shot or non existent and if you have a hard time maintaining it, then you need breath control excercises...

So how do you get your falsetto to sound hollow, like a continuous voice that blends into your chest and does not make you sound like a freshly castrated eunic...

The key to this is the opening of the throat while in the chest register and blending from chest tone to mids and eventually to highs with the throat as open as possible but without forcing it open...That's a mouthfull, right?

Listen to Geoff Tate on Rage for Order, Warning, Operation Mindcrime etc...Better yet, for beginners, I always recommend the classics, such as Steve Perry from Journey...Get any Journey album such as Frontiers and listen to Faithfully, for example...

Listen for Steve Perry's falsetto notes on the words "Wheels go round and round" on the last "round" carefully...What you will notice, as Steve Perry has said in numerous interviews about his technique is that he blends from chest tone, straight to head voice...In other words head voice is brought down on open throat technique with just the proper amount of breath control exerted on the notes...

For a newbie, this will sound extremelly unatural and dissonant...This means taking that crackling, undeveloped, irritating falsetto of yours and blending it right around the transition point where it disconnects from head voice and bring it flawlessly and smoothly into chest tone, while keeping a good resonant vibe, that will convice everyone listening that you never made any transition at all and that is your continuous voice...

The other problem in singing is that DAMN, you cannot ever hear yourself correctly! Yes folks, we as singers are tone deaf to our own voice...We could be doing something completely wrong and think we are doing it right and BLAM, we record our voice and it sounds like crap, cause we've been forcing the hell out of it!

So here's what you do...Since proper voice blending will only be truely evident on recordings, record yourself alot! Yes, this means sing Karaoke style to your favorites tunes, but while imittating Geoff Tate who has a hell of a voice, make sure that you are turned up louder in the mix...It is your voice that you are verifying against his, not the other way around...Now judge yourself...If you sound awesome and you are pleased of the results, you are on your way to stardom! If not, you probably need more work over the course of your entire life! YUP, that's what it will take to get there...

I have been singing everyday since I was 10 years old and now I'm 34 and my voice is still developing! For those who don't know, operatic singing develops your voice till you're in your fifties...I sing every other day for at list an hour of practice using my PA...My vocal influences are regardless of order: Geoff Tate, Ray Alder, James LaBrie, Midnight from Crimson Glory, Steve Perry and King Diamond...I can sing in those styles pretty flawlessly, which means I'm a damn good immitator or just a very devoted power metal vocalist...So there's a tid bit on my approach...

I told you its a lot harder than it sounds...But if you can master the technique, you will never go back to strained notes singing ever again...

If your pastor can teach you how to attain this, by all means give it a shot...What do you have to loose, if your heart is into it?

Cheers,
F.A.
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axemanchris Offline
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geez.... for someone who is obviously pretty opinionated about voice production, you're talking a lot of sense.

haha

... from someone who is probably equally opinionated.

And I am proof that *anyone* can learn to sing. I didn't sing a note from the time I was about 12 until I was about 25 because my voice really was *that* bad. I'm hardly a natural, but after 10 years of lessons, I can unashamedly describe myself as a pretty decent singer.

Chris

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dobro Offline
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I'm proof that you can sing completely wrongly, wreck your voice on a regular basis, and still occasionally get a tune out that people like the sound of.

The best thing is if you have the technique *AND* the music in what you sing. But you can get by with less sometimes if you're not obsessed with excellence and you're satisfied with good music.

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jelstro Offline
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your head voice comes through the mask of the face (the area around your brow, eyes, top of the nose). It's difficult to grasp for some people but if you "place" the sound there, this is the correct way to do it.
I've seen people do exercises with sopranos in their higher range where they act like they're pulling a string from the top of their head and singing "eee" and then arcing it out in front of them and reshaping their vowel to "ahhh". If you practice doing this while paying close attention to keeping the sound placed in the mask of the face (NOT the back of the throat!) and gradually let it drop to the diaphragm this should help.
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malaki Offline
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

should head voice be as easy to sing as falsetto? I have been singing for a year and I have found my high notes. not sure if its correct though. at about d#-e4 I flip into falsetto or into what I believe is headvoice. the problem is I feel alot of tension in my neck muscles and my chin/throat. it takes alot more air power as I go higher. I have a really hard time doing any vibrato on the high notes. when I use falsetto I can do lots of vibrato and dont have alot of tension. can any one help?
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malaki Offline
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess no one checks the vocalist forum or knows what Im talking about then.
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dobro Offline
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patience, Malkaki. This place isn't 'instant information on demand' - you have to wait days for an answer sometimes.
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malaki Offline
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, thanks dobro, seems like a great forum. lots of good info. take care, Kevin
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