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 Mastering/bouncing to tape ... actually cassette???
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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:20 pm    Post subject: Mastering/bouncing to tape ... actually cassette??? Reply with quote

this is the kind of sh** I come up with when I've run out of motivation for an evening... I try to make up for my lack of physical effort by thinking about ....esoteric... yes that's probably appropriate... esoteric stuff

I'm guessing the track width on a cassette is ~1/16". whereas a half track deck (reel to reel) would be 1/8" (or do they have a 3rd track available for time code...? hmmm, hadn't thought about that

anyway, back to the cassette... are the LR channel of side A (or B) adjacent> or is it 1 and 3 is the A side and 2 and 4 is the Bside

wondering about bleed

I have an 8 track 1/2" machine that I've iused... but 10" reels are getting damned expensive.... Cassettes are still relatively cheap

I like the headroom tape gives me, plus a "natural" saturation" without a plug in... and the speed/auto-pitch is a nice feature Laughing

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Lt. Bob Offline
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no the channels aren't adjacent ..... I believe.
I think they're like a 1/4 reel to reel and so are 1 and 3 on one side and 2 and 4 on the other.

And if you've got a GOOD cassette deck they can do surprisingly well.
I have a couple of decks with Dolby S. Bet you never heard of that huh?
It was towards the end of cassettes and it really really works. My good cassette deck sounds great. As good as my CD recorders anyway.

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BobWheatley Offline






PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ever used a VCR?
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Lt. Bob Offline
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wouldn't a VCR be digital?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not if it's analog, like this 96-HOUR TIME LAPSE ANALOG VCR. NTSC, Audio Recording up to 40 Hours - but it only has one track. Sad
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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Tascam A-500

I'm asking as I'm thinking about getting rid of all my R-to-R "stuff" and don't want to lose the ability to bounce to tape

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Lt. Bob Offline
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well I don't know man.
Unless you've got a GOOD cassette deck, I doubt the quality's gonna be anywhere near that reel to reel.
Why not keep the reel to reel. ..... it's not like you're gonna get that much for it anyway.

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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I need to sdpend a fe hours, bounce the same thing to both, and then bounce back to digital and see how much noiser one is over the other.

The reel-t0-reel takes up room that I could probably put to better use (taking over any more of the house will not be tolerated by she-who-must-be-obeyed LOL

the deck I probably wouldn't get much for, but I'm sitting on somewhere in the neighborhood of a grand worth of new, unsealed/unused Ampex 499 and Quantegy 456 tape/reels

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cassette sucks. It was a horrible (but reasonably portable) medium that thankfully only lasted a short time commercially.

"Screws up" -- 1(1L), 2(2R), 3(1R), 4(2L). 1/32" per track (actually much smaller to allow for the crappy heads - if they were right on, the crosstalk would be much worse and you'd be hearing ghosts of the other side in reverse constantly) running at around *1/10th* of the speed that would allow for a quality recording.

It's old, noisy junk.

As much as I'm a fan of "that tape sound" it never did and never will come from cassette. It doesn't "pleasantly saturate and compress" - It just distorts and gets noisy. The best decks ever made are crap compared to the worst CD players made.

IMO, YMMV, etc., etc., yada, yada.

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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John

Thanks for your comments!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I typed all that shortly after giving the "O.K." to repair my cassette deck... $187.50 to fix something I use two or three times a year... If that. If I had my way I'd throw 'em all in a tire fire.
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Lt. Bob Offline
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a couple of casstte decks that actually sound pretty good ..... at least for just listening to music.
But there's no way that they're a candidate for studio use as an analog 'sweetener'

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SafeandSound Mastering Offline
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got lost about the "extra headroom", headroom is defined as the range between nominal operating level and onset of distortion. So it's defined by your recording level. Sure sometimes you migth get a good sound from a good cassette and nice recorder but it will roll off some extreme high and lows. Definitely worth experiementing with. Will work best with material without too much in the way of dyanmics as hiss can be a problem.

Making music is all about fun and experimentation in the end.

cheers

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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

by "headroom" I mean in the analog realm (tape) I can push a level a bit hotter than the digital realm (where it would clip)- without the ugly distortion

tape is slightly more forgiving (IMHO)

the"saturation" adds a texture (often referred to as a warmth) that digital cannot do without a plug-in emulating tape

if it wasn't something a few "ears" thought desirous there probably wouldn't be as many plug-ins out there

anybody try UAD's Studer 16 track plug?

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WKWizard Offline
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to use hi-fi vcrs. It worked at the time, but I don't miss it at all.
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PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
headroom is defined as the range between nominal operating level and onset of distortion.

Headroom is the range between nominal and failure -- Distortion sets in much earlier than failure (and in some cases, earlier than nominal).

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dobro Offline
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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's 'failure' in the case of tape? Distortion so bad it sounds ugly?
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't agree with that point on failure, one mans "failure" is another mans recording objective.

At what point is overload.... "failure" during progressive degrees of distortion?

It is subjective and therefore better to describe it as distortion IMO which may or may not be deemed acceptable at least for purposes of explaining what defines headroom.

If you have offensive distortion at nominal levels you need to re-assess your gain structure, for sure because you have already run out of what we are trying to define.(headroom)

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nomad1970 Offline
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd stick with your 1/2" 8 track, especially if it has some type of noise reduction. Is tape that expensive? I use to have a TSR-8 and remember paying around $60 for a reel in the early 90's.

I have a drawer full of reels I'd love to listen to someday when I'm old. Wait, I am old!

Damn it! Too late....
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would love a nice tape machine to bounce stuff too and from and I have been interested in the new UAD Studer emulation, very interesting.
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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got a 14 day demo of the Studer... waiting for the right session to activate it)
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dobro Offline
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't you have anything that you're working on?
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stainless Offline
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well yeah... but nothing I want to sacrifice my trial period on

I may have a country guy from the Seattle area this weekend (singer/songwriter- and country) that I may pull the trigger and use the tape as I think we can wrap it up within the 14 days

I wonder if I could just keep resetting the date on the computer? kinda like Ground Hog Day for audio geeks Laughing

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I wish I could be traded like a penny in the arcade for a token to be played
on a cello strung with strings that are my dreams



Check out our music at http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/stainlessbrown[/url]
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SafeandSound Mastering Offline
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is great there is a demo available shame it's not a native one, lol.
Still means an investment in the dongles.

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